That’s even worse than the perennial “For every animal you don’t eat, I’m going to eat three.” Not only is it a ridiculously obnoxious thing to say, it also is mathematically impossible. Such people need to be slapped.
Argh…
This is why I stopped looking at CIF. Its full of intolerant morons. How they hell is measurable (to an extent) comparitive intelligence an unreasonable method of distinguishment, yet the presence of an ineffable, possibly non-existant soul is perfectly fine?
People are ridiculous sometimes

I’m obnoxious?

Um. I may have misread what you wrote, or at least been horrendously grammatically convoluted. I was referring to the the statement you quoted at the beginning.
Sorry for any misunderstanding :(

Don’t worry, I just wasn’t sure what you were saying. My question was hardly clear itself!

The person who’s been debating with me is actually very eloquent - but he doesn’t back up anything he says, which is infuriating!

One for the pub this, definitely. I don’t eat meat, and haven’t for about 25 years, except on odd occasions, (mostly very odd). I agree, broadly, with what you’re saying, and don’t eat meat for broadly the same reasons.

But

1. In very many parts of the world, I don’t think the choice to eat meat is contentious. In fact, I don’t think it’s a choice. You eat what there is. I have had my vegetarianism most seriously challenged in sub-Saharan Africa, to the extent that sticking to it (as I did) confused and inconvenienced people to a degree that I actually came to think was pointless. The meat they are eating is not intensively farmed, the animals hang out in the village with the people. There *is* a food chain on the planet, and before we went industrial, we were part of it. So I decided that if I was ever again stuck in rural Zambia or Malawi, I’d eat what was on the menu (chicken, basically). I haven’t put that to the test yet though.

2. The dairy industry would not exist without the meat industry, they are totally interdependent. So the urban ovo-lacto vegetarian lifestyle is a by-product.

3. Veganism is not an answer for the whole planet — crops need animal shit. Without manure as fertiliser, we wouldn’t be able to grow enough food to keep us all alive.

So I totally support your right not to eat meat, but it’s also a modern luxury. We can’t all not do it. And I increasingly lean towards the idea that vegetarians stand as a reminder that we have a choice not to eat meat, and that there’s nothing ‘natural’ about a burger that contains bits of 100 different cows, some of which were fed on sheep’s brains. But we’re part of a continuum. I think meat should be organic and free range (which in the West equals expensive), and so should milk, cheese and eggs, but I couldn’t argue that we shouldn’t ever farm them or eat them.

And I eat fish, on the grounds that it’s wild. On the same grounds I theoretically eat duck and venison, but actually I never have and don’t plan to start :-). I did eat crocodile once, but that’s a different story.

I’m not the most eloquent of writers but on reading Jo’s comment above (which I think is very eloquent and I agree in the main).

1. I have never travelled anywhere where I have not have a relatively easy option to remain vegetarian.. and I am unsure how I would deal with the difficulty.

2. I am ovo-lacto.. and do feel somewhat that I am supporting the meat industry in being so…

3. Veganism is the next logical step given the acknowledgement of point 2, but aren’t humans animals, I produce shit every day!

I still think - other than the ‘we’re just another species and so why take advantage of others’ argument (which I agree with), I believe that one of the most compelling arguments for vegetarianism (and more properly veganism) is the fact that we make more efficient use of energy value of plant matter by eating it directly rather than have an animal ‘process’ it first.