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	<title>Comments on: Why I won&#8217;t vote</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote</link>
	<description>Kinders Kinley's blog</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 13 Mar 2010 16:59:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kinders</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>Kinders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-265</guid>
		<description>When I call myself a champagne anarchist I mean that anarchy for me is a "perfect world" ideology, but not one that I've thought carefully enough about the ramifications to really work for it. No doubt you know the phrase &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne_socialist" rel="nofollow"&gt;champagne socialist&lt;/a&gt; - it's just a variation on that. Perhaps it's the political equivalant of agnosticism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I call myself a champagne anarchist I mean that anarchy for me is a &#8220;perfect world&#8221; ideology, but not one that I&#8217;ve thought carefully enough about the ramifications to really work for it. No doubt you know the phrase <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champagne_socialist" rel="nofollow">champagne socialist</a> - it&#8217;s just a variation on that. Perhaps it&#8217;s the political equivalant of agnosticism?</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Cotgreave</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Cotgreave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:17:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-264</guid>
		<description>PS - 
I wrote to Andrew Smith at the start of the expenses scandal. I write to him moderately often, via  letters and emails. He has always responded. We've had some wild disagreements (Iraq) and many agreements (Heathrow Expansion).  

His response to my expenses letter was a 2-page hand-written letter. He's always struck me as a man of integrity who is dedicated to the constituency.

The end result? I ****want**** to vote for him. I go to the polling both because he has shown me that he is a good representative. I want to do whatever little bit I can to get him voted in, because he deserves that from me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS -<br />
I wrote to Andrew Smith at the start of the expenses scandal. I write to him moderately often, via  letters and emails. He has always responded. We&#8217;ve had some wild disagreements (Iraq) and many agreements (Heathrow Expansion).  </p>
<p>His response to my expenses letter was a 2-page hand-written letter. He&#8217;s always struck me as a man of integrity who is dedicated to the constituency.</p>
<p>The end result? I ****want**** to vote for him. I go to the polling both because he has shown me that he is a good representative. I want to do whatever little bit I can to get him voted in, because he deserves that from me.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Cotgreave</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Cotgreave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:11:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-263</guid>
		<description>Hi Kinders
Firstly - you correctly realised I hadn't read the letter to Andrew Smith (or even all the comments already posted on this entry). So, apologies for suggesting you're not engaged.

I don't think blogging is too different from voting. However, I'd never thought of that concept before commenting on this blog yesterday, so it's not quite formed in my own head yet, let alone in a way I could coherently explain in a comment!

You say you're a Champagne Anarchist  (ugh, I *hate* that term...!). What does that mean? It doesn't even have a Wikipedia page! I've always felt is is a wishy-washy term to justify shouting about "injustice" but then doing very little about it. Ok, I accept you engage, but until you vote I think your authority is weakened.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kinders<br />
Firstly - you correctly realised I hadn&#8217;t read the letter to Andrew Smith (or even all the comments already posted on this entry). So, apologies for suggesting you&#8217;re not engaged.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think blogging is too different from voting. However, I&#8217;d never thought of that concept before commenting on this blog yesterday, so it&#8217;s not quite formed in my own head yet, let alone in a way I could coherently explain in a comment!</p>
<p>You say you&#8217;re a Champagne Anarchist  (ugh, I *hate* that term&#8230;!). What does that mean? It doesn&#8217;t even have a Wikipedia page! I&#8217;ve always felt is is a wishy-washy term to justify shouting about &#8220;injustice&#8221; but then doing very little about it. Ok, I accept you engage, but until you vote I think your authority is weakened.</p>
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		<title>By: Kinders</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-262</link>
		<dc:creator>Kinders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-262</guid>
		<description>Welcome!

The difference between writing a blog that a few friends and family read and casting a vote is that whether 1 person or 1,000 people read my blog, each of the people that does will both create and feel the outcome of doing so - whereas whether a candidate wins by 1 vote or 1,000 votes, the outcome is identical. The effect of blogging is personal while the effect of voting is cumulative.

Part of what frustrates me, as I've said to Jo, is that &lt;i&gt;so much emphasis&lt;/i&gt; is put on the vote, and the rest of the political process is left to the people we elect. &lt;b&gt;I have also engaged&lt;/b&gt;, and will continue to engage, with the process, in a myriad of different ways. Someone like me who hasn't voted but is still politically involved is chastised for apathy despite probably being more active than most voters. Voting is, as Jo pointed out above, just the beginning.

Have a look at my &lt;a href="http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-an-open-letter-to-andrew-smith-mp-for-east-oxford" rel="nofollow"&gt;next post&lt;/a&gt; - the time that I would have spent being vocal by going down the road and voting was in fact spent being vocal and politically active in a different manner that I think also addresses your points and hopefully proves that abstention doesn't necessarily equal inactivity or apathy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Welcome!</p>
<p>The difference between writing a blog that a few friends and family read and casting a vote is that whether 1 person or 1,000 people read my blog, each of the people that does will both create and feel the outcome of doing so - whereas whether a candidate wins by 1 vote or 1,000 votes, the outcome is identical. The effect of blogging is personal while the effect of voting is cumulative.</p>
<p>Part of what frustrates me, as I&#8217;ve said to Jo, is that <i>so much emphasis</i> is put on the vote, and the rest of the political process is left to the people we elect. <b>I have also engaged</b>, and will continue to engage, with the process, in a myriad of different ways. Someone like me who hasn&#8217;t voted but is still politically involved is chastised for apathy despite probably being more active than most voters. Voting is, as Jo pointed out above, just the beginning.</p>
<p>Have a look at my <a href="http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-an-open-letter-to-andrew-smith-mp-for-east-oxford" rel="nofollow">next post</a> - the time that I would have spent being vocal by going down the road and voting was in fact spent being vocal and politically active in a different manner that I think also addresses your points and hopefully proves that abstention doesn&#8217;t necessarily equal inactivity or apathy.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Cotgreave</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Cotgreave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 08:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-261</guid>
		<description>Came to this blog via &lt;a href="http://joella.blogspot.com/2009/06/its-not-dark-yet-but-its-getting-there.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;Joella&lt;/a&gt;.

I really believe you're completely wrong.

As an internet-savvy blogger, you must be familiar (and presumably a champion) of concepts such as the Long-Tail, or Collaborative Power, etc. All of those things are celebrated on the Internet - the ways in which one tiny voice/web page/comment amongst millions is important. Your vote is the equivalent of this very blog. Why do you blog? Do you really think the "world" is listening to your blog? Of course it's not, but that doesn't make your blog worthless; it's important to a tiny weeny number of people, and that little influence on society is positive. Your vote is the equivalent. To be a blogger and a non-voter is contradictory.

"Elections are a farce". Please, that's just ridiculous. I've not voted for my Labour MP (Andrew Smith) for the last two elections. However, he's a brilliant constituent MP and we have corresponded many times. We disagree on many things, but I respect his opinions and he is a great representative of East Oxford. He'll probably get my vote next time. Why's this important? Because I have _engaged_ with the process.

Please - don't blog about the problems, do something active. It's easy to sit at your keyboard and pontificate, but the time you spent writing this post would be have been just as vocal as going down the road and voting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Came to this blog via <a href="http://joella.blogspot.com/2009/06/its-not-dark-yet-but-its-getting-there.html" rel="nofollow">Joella</a>.</p>
<p>I really believe you&#8217;re completely wrong.</p>
<p>As an internet-savvy blogger, you must be familiar (and presumably a champion) of concepts such as the Long-Tail, or Collaborative Power, etc. All of those things are celebrated on the Internet - the ways in which one tiny voice/web page/comment amongst millions is important. Your vote is the equivalent of this very blog. Why do you blog? Do you really think the &#8220;world&#8221; is listening to your blog? Of course it&#8217;s not, but that doesn&#8217;t make your blog worthless; it&#8217;s important to a tiny weeny number of people, and that little influence on society is positive. Your vote is the equivalent. To be a blogger and a non-voter is contradictory.</p>
<p>&#8220;Elections are a farce&#8221;. Please, that&#8217;s just ridiculous. I&#8217;ve not voted for my Labour MP (Andrew Smith) for the last two elections. However, he&#8217;s a brilliant constituent MP and we have corresponded many times. We disagree on many things, but I respect his opinions and he is a great representative of East Oxford. He&#8217;ll probably get my vote next time. Why&#8217;s this important? Because I have _engaged_ with the process.</p>
<p>Please - don&#8217;t blog about the problems, do something active. It&#8217;s easy to sit at your keyboard and pontificate, but the time you spent writing this post would be have been just as vocal as going down the road and voting.</p>
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		<title>By: Kinders</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-118</link>
		<dc:creator>Kinders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 16:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-118</guid>
		<description>Certainly, now more than any recent time, following the expenses scandal. There was even a &lt;a href="http://www.bridgetothestars.net/news/pullman-campaigns-for-a-referendum-on-proportional-representation/" rel="nofollow"&gt;story on BttS&lt;/a&gt; about it. I'm sceptical that anything will change, however, since the people who have the power to change it know that it's not in their interests to do so (and the other people who have the power to change it - the public - as with everything else don't realise they have the power to change it).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly, now more than any recent time, following the expenses scandal. There was even a <a href="http://www.bridgetothestars.net/news/pullman-campaigns-for-a-referendum-on-proportional-representation/" rel="nofollow">story on BttS</a> about it. I&#8217;m sceptical that anything will change, however, since the people who have the power to change it know that it&#8217;s not in their interests to do so (and the other people who have the power to change it - the public - as with everything else don&#8217;t realise they have the power to change it).</p>
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		<title>By: jess</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 15:25:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-100</guid>
		<description>nick said, "But every vote for a minor party, however disgusting it may be, will show that there are people who aren’t happy with the status quo being provided by the major parties."

is there ever talk of electoral reform in the UK?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nick said, &#8220;But every vote for a minor party, however disgusting it may be, will show that there are people who aren’t happy with the status quo being provided by the major parties.&#8221;</p>
<p>is there ever talk of electoral reform in the UK?</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-62</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-62</guid>
		<description>A couple of other things that occured to me. The SNP devolved government have a mandate of 49  votes. That's right. Fourty Nine.
They have a majority of one, not counting their coalition and one independent-snp candidate, and in one of the constituencies, due to a large number of spoilt ballot papers, their lead over Labour was a tiny amount. Considering the SNP's policy of independence, this one candidate probably will, in some way or another, be used to bring about a consitutional referendum on the future of the UK within the next 3 years, which would have been unlikely if it were reversed.  Also the Minnesota Senate election is another one I can think of off hand.
I know this isn't par for the course, and with the SNP thing, the nature of the lead isn't normal, but there are some case in which low numbers of voters can make a difference. You may not be prosletysing, but if there were less than a hundred others who thought like you in one constituency, or 220 across a whole state in the latter case, results can change.

Also, the reason I cared about the European elections was that I believe in the EU. I think a federal supra-national body is a good thing, and with a bit of reform, Europe would benefit more from co-operation than the individual countries would apart. Too few people do, especially in the UK, and even more people simply don't care. I can't really explain it well, but for that reason, I will participate in the elections because I think I have a moral duty to support the institutions of a body I believe in when few others do.

As for whose benefit it is I'm voting, I think it's probably the latter, though the former does hold some weight. It's not just online that I shy away from conflict, and none of the politically active people I know remotely share my views. And since most of them belong to one of the pre-eminent university debating society in the world, I'm not so good at holding my own, so I don't tend to shout my views from the rooftops. But every vote for a minor party, however disgusting it may be, will show that there are people who aren't happy with the status quo being provided by the major parties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of other things that occured to me. The SNP devolved government have a mandate of 49  votes. That&#8217;s right. Fourty Nine.<br />
They have a majority of one, not counting their coalition and one independent-snp candidate, and in one of the constituencies, due to a large number of spoilt ballot papers, their lead over Labour was a tiny amount. Considering the SNP&#8217;s policy of independence, this one candidate probably will, in some way or another, be used to bring about a consitutional referendum on the future of the UK within the next 3 years, which would have been unlikely if it were reversed.  Also the Minnesota Senate election is another one I can think of off hand.<br />
I know this isn&#8217;t par for the course, and with the SNP thing, the nature of the lead isn&#8217;t normal, but there are some case in which low numbers of voters can make a difference. You may not be prosletysing, but if there were less than a hundred others who thought like you in one constituency, or 220 across a whole state in the latter case, results can change.</p>
<p>Also, the reason I cared about the European elections was that I believe in the EU. I think a federal supra-national body is a good thing, and with a bit of reform, Europe would benefit more from co-operation than the individual countries would apart. Too few people do, especially in the UK, and even more people simply don&#8217;t care. I can&#8217;t really explain it well, but for that reason, I will participate in the elections because I think I have a moral duty to support the institutions of a body I believe in when few others do.</p>
<p>As for whose benefit it is I&#8217;m voting, I think it&#8217;s probably the latter, though the former does hold some weight. It&#8217;s not just online that I shy away from conflict, and none of the politically active people I know remotely share my views. And since most of them belong to one of the pre-eminent university debating society in the world, I&#8217;m not so good at holding my own, so I don&#8217;t tend to shout my views from the rooftops. But every vote for a minor party, however disgusting it may be, will show that there are people who aren&#8217;t happy with the status quo being provided by the major parties.</p>
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		<title>By: Kinders</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-61</link>
		<dc:creator>Kinders</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Jun 2009 18:23:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-61</guid>
		<description>I didn't see either of these comments before I posted my &lt;a href="http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-an-open-letter-to-andrew-smith-mp-for-east-oxford" rel="nofollow"&gt;letter to Andrew Smith&lt;/a&gt;. Suffice to say that it wasn't directed at either of you, anyway, since neither of you have tried to criticise me for not voting. Instead you've given my brain some healthy exercise. :)

Also, you should be aware that I'm not out to persuade anyone &lt;b&gt;not&lt;/b&gt; to vote - my decision not to is purely statistical: I know it won't have an impact so I'll spend my time doing something I think is more worthwhile - so I have no reason to try to stop others from voting. So this, for me, is just an interesting discussion; although I suppose I'm putting my pride on the line, since there's every possibility somebody could persuade me to change my stance whereas I'm not even trying to do the same for anybody else.

What strikes me about both your responses is that you seem to be voting for almost therapeutic reasons, rather than to make a difference. (Which, of course, is fine!)

Nick: you vote for show. I'm not sure whether you do it to show people that &lt;b&gt;you&lt;/b&gt; support the Greens/LibDems, or to show them that &lt;b&gt;people&lt;/b&gt; support the Greens/LibDems. Either way, what you're doing is in itself essentially activism - you're raising the profile of a cause you believe in, which is great.

(My abstinence isn't by way of protest - it's just that I feel I can better spend the time doing something else - so no, I don't register.)

PS. I always like it when you debate with me, and I know you're always apprehensive about causing conflict - so please don't worry and do carry on!

Jo: I absolutely agree that "[elections] are the beginning of political participation, not a substitute for it", and of course they are necessary to give MPs an incentive to honestly represent us. The point for me is that they're such a small start that I feel I can skip them and move on to participating in what I see as much more significant action. One thing that does bother me is that a lot of people see it as the end - they treat their vote as if it's their last great opportunity to have a say, which I think is a real shame.

But don't feel bad about the Tories - they won by more than one vote!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see either of these comments before I posted my <a href="http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-an-open-letter-to-andrew-smith-mp-for-east-oxford" rel="nofollow">letter to Andrew Smith</a>. Suffice to say that it wasn&#8217;t directed at either of you, anyway, since neither of you have tried to criticise me for not voting. Instead you&#8217;ve given my brain some healthy exercise. :)</p>
<p>Also, you should be aware that I&#8217;m not out to persuade anyone <b>not</b> to vote - my decision not to is purely statistical: I know it won&#8217;t have an impact so I&#8217;ll spend my time doing something I think is more worthwhile - so I have no reason to try to stop others from voting. So this, for me, is just an interesting discussion; although I suppose I&#8217;m putting my pride on the line, since there&#8217;s every possibility somebody could persuade me to change my stance whereas I&#8217;m not even trying to do the same for anybody else.</p>
<p>What strikes me about both your responses is that you seem to be voting for almost therapeutic reasons, rather than to make a difference. (Which, of course, is fine!)</p>
<p>Nick: you vote for show. I&#8217;m not sure whether you do it to show people that <b>you</b> support the Greens/LibDems, or to show them that <b>people</b> support the Greens/LibDems. Either way, what you&#8217;re doing is in itself essentially activism - you&#8217;re raising the profile of a cause you believe in, which is great.</p>
<p>(My abstinence isn&#8217;t by way of protest - it&#8217;s just that I feel I can better spend the time doing something else - so no, I don&#8217;t register.)</p>
<p>PS. I always like it when you debate with me, and I know you&#8217;re always apprehensive about causing conflict - so please don&#8217;t worry and do carry on!</p>
<p>Jo: I absolutely agree that &#8220;[elections] are the beginning of political participation, not a substitute for it&#8221;, and of course they are necessary to give MPs an incentive to honestly represent us. The point for me is that they&#8217;re such a small start that I feel I can skip them and move on to participating in what I see as much more significant action. One thing that does bother me is that a lot of people see it as the end - they treat their vote as if it&#8217;s their last great opportunity to have a say, which I think is a real shame.</p>
<p>But don&#8217;t feel bad about the Tories - they won by more than one vote!</p>
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		<title>By: jo</title>
		<link>http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/2009-06-why-i-dont-vote/comment-page-1#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>jo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 23:22:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kinderskinley.com/blog/?p=419#comment-48</guid>
		<description>I *always* vote, ever since I didn't vote in the first general election I was old enough to vote in, in 1992, because I wasn't on the electoral role because I was evading the Poll Tax. I felt absolutely terrible about the Tory victory, and I swore I'd never not tick a box again. 

Also, there are many, many places in the world where people don't get to vote in fair and free elections. In the UK, women have only been able to vote on the same terms as men for about 80 years. So I do it because I can. 

Also, I think there is a point. I don't think elections are a farce, I think they are the beginning of political participation, not a substitute for it. I think the voting age should be lowered to 16, and I think voting should be compulsory, like it is in Australia (though there should also be the option of a 'None of the Above'). Winston Churchill famously said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others, and I think he was bang on. Clive James was brilliant on this on radio 4 last week http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/views/a_point_of_view/ -- I'd definitely vote for him. 

Also, it's fun. http://joella.blogspot.com/2006/05/i-love-to-vote.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I *always* vote, ever since I didn&#8217;t vote in the first general election I was old enough to vote in, in 1992, because I wasn&#8217;t on the electoral role because I was evading the Poll Tax. I felt absolutely terrible about the Tory victory, and I swore I&#8217;d never not tick a box again. </p>
<p>Also, there are many, many places in the world where people don&#8217;t get to vote in fair and free elections. In the UK, women have only been able to vote on the same terms as men for about 80 years. So I do it because I can. </p>
<p>Also, I think there is a point. I don&#8217;t think elections are a farce, I think they are the beginning of political participation, not a substitute for it. I think the voting age should be lowered to 16, and I think voting should be compulsory, like it is in Australia (though there should also be the option of a &#8216;None of the Above&#8217;). Winston Churchill famously said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all the others, and I think he was bang on. Clive James was brilliant on this on radio 4 last week <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/views/a_point_of_view/" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/views/a_point_of_view/</a> &#8212; I&#8217;d definitely vote for him. </p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s fun. <a href="http://joella.blogspot.com/2006/05/i-love-to-vote.html" rel="nofollow">http://joella.blogspot.com/2006/05/i-love-to-vote.html</a></p>
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